Rebounding Surfaces

**leedaviesdrums** · May 22nd, 2003, 04:41 PM

Hi all,
This is a VERY interesting thread.
But what Andy's just said has summed it up for me!
I worked for months using the 'Weckl/Gruber' Bounce technique.. Great for snare but when you move onto the toms its just frustrating to me.
I've found with practice you can make the 'snap-up' type technique on toms sound and feel very relaxed!

Lee

**PocketPlayer** · May 22nd, 2003, 05:12 PM

WOW! Nice comments drummers out there in cyberland.

The balance of information applied to each particular drummer was very interesting. Porcaro was a groove player who focused mainly on hats & snare...toms were compliments to the groove. So, pop-ups were essential, especially in his ghost note approach on shuufles. Weckl is all over the kit constantly with his music and his tuning method allows for more bounce. Chambers does seem to be able to explode off a dime and I never saw it before, but I can see the pillow practice.

My original point really had to do with comfort and repetition. When I play on my steering wheel driving, I am logging a lot of time, up to an hour a day, five days a week. I get used to (comfort) the bouncy surface of my BMW factory wheel and the angle of my arm hitting the surface while driving.
In front of the tube, I have a hard bouncy Ludwig pad that I can master sitting on the couch with the angle of my hand over the side on the pad.
The other "evening" surface I have used is a Boogie Board (I guess ya got to live in So Calif???) primarily used for wave riding in the ocean. It has a large surface with a medium rebound allowing for a simulated snare and drum surface. Lay it on the coffee table and go to town.

Once I am on these surfaces over time, I really become familiar with them (comfort zone) and feel great finger control and progress...I can control with each finger which is what I mostly practice during these periods. I go through the Stone Killer exercise from Morello's book, Master Studies and other various patterns.

Pop-ups is what I have practiced the least. Pillows have been a large part of my routine...again, I have had more control and "feel" with them then on an actual snare at times! Humbling thought to realize in times past I spent almost a 3:1 time factor on non-drum surfaces--driving, work, evening at home, etc.

I am leaning at this point on style of playing. I mostly play pop rock/R&B/Funk, so pop-ups and some needed stick control coming out of time is needed. When you're not playing a lot of notes, the ones you play need to comminicate! After the song is over it's blow time--an attempt to sound like Steve in his latest solo post.

One last thought...I am fascinated by drumming and body types. I made a past a long time ago on a thread about diet mentioning the three basic body types; Ectomorphs: a light build with slight muscular development(Chad Wackerman) Mesomorphs: a husky, muscular build (Weckl) Endomorphs: characterized by a heavy, rounded build with shoulders usually narrower than their hips.(Dennis Chambers).
These are general categories, I mean Weckl isn't exactly husky or muscular, but categorically, that's where he fit.
My point...most people naturally develop and put a lot of foundation on their natural strengths. I'm more muscular than Weckl, but not as thick as Dennis. I am very athletic and have always "muscled" my way around the kit. Finese wasn't part of my early playing days, pounding was. As my musical interests expanded and I got into ghost noting subtleties, I had to rethink everything. This is when my natural dynamics needed an examination because playing Loverboy covers became real OLD. The Purdie 1/2 time shuffle was something I couldn't get out of my head and I "wanted it." So I had to keep my natural strengths while adopting the other needed skills (this was my drum video phase). Hand technique became a real interest and a world of theory opened up.
It is true, one has to explore many doors before openning his own. It was confusing to me, but I feel I am really narrowing it down to some detailed methods, and the rebounding surface thing is my current observation.
Sorry--way too much info here [img]graemlins/smarty.gif[/img]

[ May 22, 2003 02:37 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]

**Geoff_G** · May 22nd, 2003, 11:43 PM

good thread ! on the car practice pad thing, it would be sweet if a company sold a "dash pad" that would secure on almost any dash & have like 3 triggered sounds. but i guess the liability issue would be a biOtch.

when i had a different (translation: POS) car [img]graemlins/car.gif[/img] , i cut up a older 8" real feel & velcro'd 3x3" pieces on both sides of my steering wheel -- this is ON the dash mind you, not the actual wheel. at the time, the ford escort dash set-up was perfect for a left & right dash hit area...it was good for "zone" accuracy (small area to hit), chops & endurance. especially when i would go from Miami to St. Augustine (5 hrs), i would walk out of the car with popeye arms sometimes. [img]cool.gif[/img]

[ May 22, 2003 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Geoff_G ]

**PocketPlayer** · May 23rd, 2003, 02:24 AM

Awesome Geoff!!! On my old Plymouth Colt back in '89 I transformed the entire dashboard into a giant practice pad. I used to drive highway 30 from Warsaw to Ft Wayne, IN and beyond. A daily does of practice on a loney road for 120 mins a day. Being left handed, it was great to develop my weak hand. I always loved the LOOKS... [img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
from the locals on the road. To this day, I will argue I had better control drving w/my knees as my "alert" status and reactions were at a peak!

[ May 22, 2003 11:25 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]

**Derek DeFields** · May 23rd, 2003, 03:56 AM

You can tell from Dennis' sound that he practiced on pillows.

You could work your upstrokes just by doing accents on the last note of a figure. rrrR lllL etc.

You certainly will not hurt yourself doing that. I have never personally just practiced upstrokes alone, I've always done it in the manner above.

there are a TON of drumcorps exercises that will work both strokes without hurting yourself. Inverts probably being the most obvious. (inverted flam taps)

**five eight** · May 23rd, 2003, 04:45 AM

Now I'm thoroughly convinced ALL drummers are crazy. I play barehanded on the crosspiece of the steering wheel with the backs of my hands striking the inside of the top of the wheel (at approximately eleven o'clock and one o'clock). Get some pretty cool rhythms happening, especially if I turn a blinker on for the hell of it so I can solo against an ostinato while using the horn as my crash cymbal. Have to be careful not to use the accelerator as my bass pedal though. I carry sticks in my car (of course) to practice twirling at stop lights or when I pull up alongside cute chicks. [img]cool.gif[/img]

**FuseU1** · May 23rd, 2003, 05:02 AM

U guys r whacked [just like your dashes/steerin wheels]!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[PS - i did a lotta that sh-- too - & at 1 time, i got to be darned good at drivin w my knees [img]wink.gif[/img] ; & i've started several dashboards to crackin' in my day [img]eek.gif[/img] ... hope no insurance reps r browsing this [img]wink.gif[/img] ]

[ May 23, 2003 02:04 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]

**five eight** · May 23rd, 2003, 05:06 AM

Fuse and Pocket, tell me more about this "knee control" technique. [img]wink.gif[/img]

**PocketPlayer** · May 23rd, 2003, 05:14 AM

I can honestly say I can drive my stick w/o hands! I have the timing of the shift down to a feel and I can just "stick it" while driving w/my knees. OK...turns. Got that down as well. Hard 90 degree turns I haven't mastered, but then, I'm not trying to practice this technique...just that when you're in the "Pocket" and that tunes is rushin', it's hard to let go. In my youth..19YO, I did bump someone one the 405 in 5mph traffic. Always regretted that. So, I mostly now try to focus on the long drive w/o stop, but in LA, that's an oxymoron! Hmmm, no.....I'm the moron! [img]redface.gif[/img]

[ May 23, 2003 02:16 AM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]

**FuseU1** · May 23rd, 2003, 05:17 AM

Shhhhh... It's much like ancient proverb; or like sacred Colaiuta Technique & Concept Instrctnl Vid - it is secret, held tight by only masta sitting on high mountain perch...much practice, grasshoppa, MUCH practice; until your knee-drive Way of the Wrist & Fist gung-fu is MUCH betta than others' silly, so-called gung-fu [mouth & words out of sync].... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ May 23, 2003 02:24 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]

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